All of our efforts in ALL browser communities should be directed at each other, but at the 100 MILLION misinformed and/or unknowing IE users that continue to use a non-standard, unimaginative browser that only exists to tie them to Windows.

While it may be required for corporate applications that were written for IE, anybody that’s even trivially familiar with web development understands that open-standards support is the key to smoother, more systematic cross-browser support (for desktops, devices, mobile phones) and easier web site redesigns, etc…

All of these idiotic “he said/she said” contentions should be aimed squarely at IE-centric blogs and sites and reviews…and to all the users we see continuing to think they’re getting the best internet experience by using IE, to help open their eyes. And just because there are shortsighted developers out there that think that various IE extensions makes their web site easier to write or support, that breaks in Opera or Webkit or FF, doesn’t make it right.

Since when did all the best things that have ever happened in the world, take place because everyone just went along, or did the easy thing, or did the lazy thing, or did the thing that made the fastest, short-term profit… When?

When?? Never.

Will certainly test the new version out.

capturing market share is not only done by winning new users, but also by retaining existing users

QFT. If only the devs felt the same as you and I… or more importantly, if only their actions conveyed this message.

Can you please start using someone native English speaker to do these kind of videos? Using a guy with an accent is not a smart move. Seriously.

I know it might sound discriminating (and it is), but the viewer experience is a whole lot better for it, and it actually increases liking. It might sound charming, and maybe you want to remind everybody that Opera is not made by Huge American Corporation Ltd., but cute, small, Norwegian Opera Software. This is not how (most) viewers tend to see it. Liking (of Opera an Opera Software) is increased more by using native speaking persons.
While this video in particular might not be targetted on “normal” folks, but on individuals who already have an interest in Opera, it is still a good idea to reinforce their relationship with you. After all, capturing market share is not only done by winning new users, but also by retaining existing users (cheaper and easier). And tech-savvy users that frequent sites like these are the ones most likely to deflect (we know that switching browser is done in minutes).

Use someone that speaks “perfect high-English” (American may be better than English, though I do not know), no accent nor dialect. Better than Thor Heyerdahl/Petter Solberg English. It does not work.

Maybe I should have written this in an email to the people responsible, rather than here…?

1. Multiple viewable tabs in the same window (and no stupid thumbnails don’t count.), eg you can click links in each tab, view say 4 youtube videos side by side etc list goes on.
2. Seperate settings for sidebar bookmarks, like zoom, small screen etc
3. Bookmark links on toolbars other than bookmarks toolbar, bookmarks toolbar anywhere doesn’t count as all bookmarks on there need to be grouped.
4. Instant skinning.
5. Buttons that open up different menues(there is an extension for the menu bar itself, but not for seperate menu items afaik)
6. A source editor that makes it easy to edit code of pages and see the changes almost instantly.
7. Oh wait, usable Small Screen Rendering.
8. An editable status bar (yes you can actually place buttons there.)
9. Loading of cached images only (great if you haved capped bandwidth).
10. Buttons that instantly turn off different settings without forcing the user to go into a dialog.
11. A button system that allows me to do tasks not necessarily browser based (I can turn off services by clicking a button in my browser, or shut down the OS, you could argue that this may be done using extensions, but how deep into the core would you need to get for that?)

haavards blog has a nasty tendency of comments to dissapear

If you post comments in the same tone as you post them here then yes, i understand. There is a a difference between being straight to the point and being a douchebag. Sadly your grasp of the language seems to prohibit you from doing one without the other. Until this is resolved, you will continue to be viewed as a troll by most people.

“same knowledge as yours - intuition and observation of opera users” - unrepresentative nonsense then… thanks. How many hundreds of users are in this case-study you are conducting? Well virtually no one at work is using ff3 because it is beta and lots of extensions don’t work in it yet. Also, of the few people i know that have ff3 installed, they don’t use tags (myself included). Being atypical, 95+% of the bookmarks i have in opera are bookmarklets/scripts. I know that the way i use opera and the things that i want opera to do and not to are shared by a minority of users. Your study of a few of your friends is not representative of how the world of users use things. You are about just as informed about what people use as I and the opera staff. This brings me to your next point…

opera wanted to FORCE some controversial changes without giving user AN OPTION to change that. it was rape on long lasting opera customisation policy. star in address bar, as ff3 example shows, is ok, but opera users (rightfulyy imho) felt that they are forced with something new that they can not turn off.

QFT. Too often Opera makes radical changes to functionality that has been that way for many years with no way to return to classic functionality. This is a major complaint of mine. The only way to get this functionality back is if this is something that affects the majority of users and they revolt. If you are in the minority that use and care about it, consider yourself officially screwed. To quote myself:

taking away functionality that has been available for years should implicitly imply the creation of some ‘classic functionality’ config option.

Too often I seem to be on the losing end of feature removal. Sorry my reply to w2 turned into a personal matter. Oh well… This is one of the things we agree on.

certainly not true. there are lots and lots of functionalities that are in firefox and its extensions that are not in opera.

of course this is true. My point was, there would be no speed dial extension without opera. There would be no advanced history serch or whatever ff3 calls it without opera… or atleast not today, right now. Other things you can thank opera: full page zoom, mouse gestures, tab thumbnails, fast forward. There are a long line of opera inspired extensions and builtin functionality in ff. Cutesy side note: In the description of the feature request for full page zoom, it actually says “(like Opera)”. I’m sure firefox innovates things as well but I am not a part of that community and i only use limited parts of firefox. Firefox is just a platform that runs firebug for me. Firebug is hands down the best thing firefox has done for me and the most innovative thing in my opinion.

it is ‘until opera does it RIGHT’.

Well it is beta software and currently in development. Give it time.

it certainly is much more important than acid3 (real life importantce, not geek factor).

You are not a webdev. I forgive you. Standards compliance is a key element that makes web development 10 times easier. If kestrel, ff3, and ie8 passed acid3 at lunch. That would be beneficial to us all (us being developers). Acid3 is not for you normal folks (i like to call them normies or the majority).

What do you like about Opera, anyway?

Well, he shoots at anything that moves so sometimes he’s right. As they say, even a broken clock is right 2 times a day…

“The only thing to me that makes him troll-like is that he doesn’t possess or use the sense/ability to convey ideas without talking down to people and belittling them and their work.”

That’s pretty trollish in my book. Then again, this is not some random guy on the net making fun on messages boards, the guy has clearly serious anger management issues; Daniel asked him many times to stop posting on Operawatch but…

“I’m not sure if English is his native language…”

He is Polish, he stated that when he took over the desktop team blog polluting it with extremely long rants and very harsh words towards the developers. He used the name whatever2 back then.

That’s because firefox only searches titles+URLs while Opera searches the content as well.

“Opera certainly isnt at the same level as ff3 with their ‘aweseomo bar’”

No, it’s far ahead of it because it searches everything.

Now everyone, please stop feeding the troll.

“What insider knowledge lets you make statements like this? I don’t even think the opera staff can make blanket statements like this (see the start bar and view bar revolts).”

same knowledge as yours - intuition and observation of opera users (rapidly going down i have to say) that i know in person. and nicknames (semi equivalent of tags but with similar functionality) are really hidden deep into opera. deny it.

about start star/bar and view bar - you know why the ‘revolts’? because opera wanted to FORCE some controversial changes without giving user AN OPTION to change that. it was rape on long lasting opera customisation policy. star in address bar, as ff3 example shows, is ok, but opera users (rightfulyy imho) felt that they are forced with something new that they can not turn off. it was amazing that company didnt know their users and their habits and values they valued. a 10 year company!!

“It is generally accepted as fact that Opera’s marketing sucks. Feel free to suggest ways (in the linked thread) about how it could improve.”

haavards blog has a nasty tendency of comments to dissapear - you read them, they are gone an hour later.

“From this I gather, “it won’t be cool until firefox does it”. Is that what you meant?”

you are either snide or really dont understand my motives. it is ‘until opera does it RIGHT’. current implementation even in press demonstration looks like unfinished CONCEPT (not only implementantion). polish that - it will be great (anyone who uses desktop search in vista knows how such tools can be usefull). regardless if ff3 includes it or not.

“This seems to be all too true. Opera innovates. Firefox (with and without extensions) imitates. That is clearly not an equal relationship. Spot on. ”

certainly not true. there are lots and lots of functionalities that are in firefox and its extensions that are not in opera. this process is one sided, because opera lacks ANY way to copy what other vendors came up with. give opera users extension mechanisms and stick to improving rendering engine. they it will be equal relationship, now it is onesided because opera decided it to be so. with all negative consequences (and with no visible positives, but who am i to judge).

“Opera is unique and has lots of good qualities, features, and functionalities that some browsers don’t have (read: haven’t copied yet).

it was truth few months ago, now im hard to find a single one. the last one that fell was full page zoom. ff3 has it AND has the text-only zoom that opera mises.
ff3 certainly is faster, more powerfull because of extensions, has really nice safety record given that around 20-50% (depending on the country) users out there are ff users, is being developed with clear and know plan etc. what are opera desktop values other than that it is a product of innovative company? opera link? well, it should sync much more stuff, but ok, what next?

“The only thing Opera needs to catch up to competetion with is market share.”

there is no way that it will ever happen. opera is actively ignored by largest websites out there - no browser will succeed if it can not render web properly, and regardless of efforts you cant say, that compatibility improoved in last months. it is worse than it was. and i know that it is websites ‘fault’ but users DO NOT CARE! it ‘does not work in opera’ and you have ZERO chances of changing this way of thinking.

BTW on the topic - silverlight (in any version) does not work in b2. are you going to do something with this finaly? silverlight support was prmised by opera long ago and it STILL does not work. it certainly is much more important than acid3 (real life importantce, not geek factor).

@w2:

i understand the concept of full page search - it has sense and potential

From this I gather, “it won’t be cool until firefox does it”. Is that what you meant?

ff3 will have an extension created in matter of weeks with full-page history search (ff3 has sql-lite database built in just for such purpose) so there is no need to wait for ff4. remember how many DAYS it took to copy speed dial (and make it better?) IIRC 4 days

QFT sadly. The power of extensions is a strong one. However to opera’s defense, I don’t think the speed dial extension exceeded opera’s functionality when it debuted. It took several revisions.

… it looks wise to first catch up with competition and then introduce novelty. Opera certainly isnt at the same level as ff3

This seems to be all too true. Opera innovates. Firefox (with and without extensions) imitates. That is clearly not an equal relationship. Spot on. The only thing Opera needs to catch up to competetion with is market share. Opera is unique and has lots of good qualities, features, and functionalities that some browsers don’t have (read: haven’t copied yet). As much as you seem to dislike Opera (the browser and company), imagine all the features you wouldn’t have or would have had to wait longer for without us. Perhaps you should be thanking Opera?

ff3 introduced well-known and understood concept of ‘tags’. opera had something similar in the form of nicknames but.. as with many thing in opera - it wasnt sold well

It is generally accepted as fact that Opera’s marketing sucks. Feel free to suggest ways (in the linked thread) about how it could improve. (Note: things like “copy firefox” are trollesque). For the record, I use firefox daily for development and had no idea the equivalent for opera’s “nicknames” was “tags” in ff.

and most people dont even know about [bookmark nicknames in opera].

What insider knowledge lets you make statements like this? I don’t even think the opera staff can make blanket statements like this (see the start bar and view bar revolts). I don’t think you nor anyone else knows how popular or unpopular it is. Perhaps you should stick to opinions or truthful statements and leave the bs at the farm.