Comments on: Is Apple looking to SVG as a Flash replacement for the iPhone? http://operawatch.com/news/2008/03/is-apple-looking-to-svg-as-a-flash-replacement-for-the-iphone.html A blog covering the latest buzz on the Opera browser and its competition. Fri, 08 Aug 2008 18:22:29 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5.1 By: Loweded Wookie http://operawatch.com/news/2008/03/is-apple-looking-to-svg-as-a-flash-replacement-for-the-iphone.html#comment-73275 Loweded Wookie Sat, 08 Mar 2008 03:41:31 +0000 http://operawatch.com/news/2008/03/is-apple-looking-to-svg-as-a-flash-replacement-for-the-iphone.html#comment-73275 For all those who say YouTube access requires Flash completely fail to realise the iPhone already has that and does it without Flash so the comments are moot.I would side with SVG on the basis of it being totally open standard, supported fully by the very people who set the standards for web development (W3C) and has the potential to be supported on a platform that is rapidly making huge inroads into changing the way that we interact with the Net on a mobile basis.Flash is so poor on the current range of cellphones that it's not even worth using. For all those who say YouTube access requires Flash completely fail to realise the iPhone already has that and does it without Flash so the comments are moot.I would side with SVG on the basis of it being totally open standard, supported fully by the very people who set the standards for web development (W3C) and has the potential to be supported on a platform that is rapidly making huge inroads into changing the way that we interact with the Net on a mobile basis.Flash is so poor on the current range of cellphones that it’s not even worth using.

]]> By: Niklas B http://operawatch.com/news/2008/03/is-apple-looking-to-svg-as-a-flash-replacement-for-the-iphone.html#comment-73265 Niklas B Fri, 07 Mar 2008 20:44:48 +0000 http://operawatch.com/news/2008/03/is-apple-looking-to-svg-as-a-flash-replacement-for-the-iphone.html#comment-73265 Daniel, you definitely make a good argument. But you should not forget about the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canvas_(HTML_element)" rel="nofollow"><canvas></a> tag which is JavaScript powered. Proof of Apple's dedication to the canvas tag can be found in the massive amount of energy they put into making JavaScript run faster on Safari. Daniel,
you definitely make a good argument. But you should not forget about the <canvas> tag which is JavaScript powered. Proof of Apple’s dedication to the canvas tag can be found in the massive amount of energy they put into making JavaScript run faster on Safari.

]]> By: Daniel Goldman http://operawatch.com/news/2008/03/is-apple-looking-to-svg-as-a-flash-replacement-for-the-iphone.html#comment-73259 Daniel Goldman Fri, 07 Mar 2008 15:42:01 +0000 http://operawatch.com/news/2008/03/is-apple-looking-to-svg-as-a-flash-replacement-for-the-iphone.html#comment-73259 Nystor, there are a few remaining Silverlight bugs to be fixed in Opera side. Nystor, there are a few remaining Silverlight bugs to be fixed in Opera side.

]]> By: jub http://operawatch.com/news/2008/03/is-apple-looking-to-svg-as-a-flash-replacement-for-the-iphone.html#comment-73256 jub Fri, 07 Mar 2008 09:52:33 +0000 http://operawatch.com/news/2008/03/is-apple-looking-to-svg-as-a-flash-replacement-for-the-iphone.html#comment-73256 Stop trolling, Microsoft fanboy. This is a post about Flash and SVG, not your love for everything Microsoft. What are you, the Microsoft equivalent of w2? Stop trolling, Microsoft fanboy. This is a post about Flash and SVG, not your love for everything Microsoft.

What are you, the Microsoft equivalent of w2?

]]> By: Nystor http://operawatch.com/news/2008/03/is-apple-looking-to-svg-as-a-flash-replacement-for-the-iphone.html#comment-73253 Nystor Fri, 07 Mar 2008 06:31:01 +0000 http://operawatch.com/news/2008/03/is-apple-looking-to-svg-as-a-flash-replacement-for-the-iphone.html#comment-73253 why? SL 1.0 was a 'beta'. Real stable beta. They've gathered feedback and they are releasing 'final' - SL 2.0 + .net 3 + VS2008. btw. there arent that many users using Opera, and they are working on another version? ('many' is relative term.. just to point it out) In our company there is a guy who is responsible for SL evaluation and he is very enthusiastic about it. Most probably parts of our main user interface (advanced search with lots and lots of JS logic and AJAX stuff) will be rewritten into SL 2.0. Cutting Opera users out, but.. well, tough luck. I don't personaly like it, but from business point of view loosing 1% is offset by MUCH easier code management, greatly reducing deploynment times and costs. Most companies prefer to better serve that 99% than serving that last 1% at all. PS. Silverlight 2.0 compatibility with Opera was promised long ago. By Opera. So how is it? why? SL 1.0 was a ‘beta’. Real stable beta. They’ve gathered feedback and they are releasing ‘final’ - SL 2.0 + .net 3 + VS2008.

btw. there arent that many users using Opera, and they are working on another version? (’many’ is relative term.. just to point it out)

In our company there is a guy who is responsible for SL evaluation and he is very enthusiastic about it. Most probably parts of our main user interface (advanced search with lots and lots of JS logic and AJAX stuff) will be rewritten into SL 2.0. Cutting Opera users out, but.. well, tough luck. I don’t personaly like it, but from business point of view loosing 1% is offset by MUCH easier code management, greatly reducing deploynment times and costs. Most companies prefer to better serve that 99% than serving that last 1% at all.

PS. Silverlight 2.0 compatibility with Opera was promised long ago. By Opera. So how is it?

]]> By: Nico http://operawatch.com/news/2008/03/is-apple-looking-to-svg-as-a-flash-replacement-for-the-iphone.html#comment-73252 Nico Thu, 06 Mar 2008 22:17:04 +0000 http://operawatch.com/news/2008/03/is-apple-looking-to-svg-as-a-flash-replacement-for-the-iphone.html#comment-73252 I don't even get why MS already releases Silverlight 2.0 in the near future. the first version came out just a few months ago and at the moment there aren't even that many websites that are making used of it - and now they're already releasing the second version? This is just strange... I don’t even get why MS already releases Silverlight 2.0 in the near future.

the first version came out just a few months ago and at the moment there aren’t even that many websites that are making used of it - and now they’re already releasing the second version?

This is just strange…

]]> By: Nystor http://operawatch.com/news/2008/03/is-apple-looking-to-svg-as-a-flash-replacement-for-the-iphone.html#comment-73244 Nystor Thu, 06 Mar 2008 19:10:17 +0000 http://operawatch.com/news/2008/03/is-apple-looking-to-svg-as-a-flash-replacement-for-the-iphone.html#comment-73244 latest news - Silverlight 2.0 beta 1 DOES NOT work with Opera. latest news - Silverlight 2.0 beta 1 DOES NOT work with Opera.

]]> By: Lokimoki http://operawatch.com/news/2008/03/is-apple-looking-to-svg-as-a-flash-replacement-for-the-iphone.html#comment-73243 Lokimoki Thu, 06 Mar 2008 18:28:03 +0000 http://operawatch.com/news/2008/03/is-apple-looking-to-svg-as-a-flash-replacement-for-the-iphone.html#comment-73243 If Flash wasn't that buggy and slow and ugly on Linux one could might even consider using it. On the other hand, it's main purpose now is playing videos, but with HTML5 we will get video support and hence the purpose of Flash is also vanishing (so I hope atleast). With HTML5 and SVG there are very few places where Flash might be more suitable. Bad thing is - Flash is owned by Adobe, so is the only working SVG Plugin for the IE. So it really depends on Adobe in pushing SVG and promoting it more - but this would contradict their Flex plans. Very tough times.. If Flash wasn’t that buggy and slow and ugly on Linux one could might even consider using it.
On the other hand, it’s main purpose now is playing videos, but with HTML5 we will get video support and hence the purpose of Flash is also vanishing (so I hope atleast).
With HTML5 and SVG there are very few places where Flash might be more suitable.
Bad thing is - Flash is owned by Adobe, so is the only working SVG Plugin for the IE. So it really depends on Adobe in pushing SVG and promoting it more - but this would contradict their Flex plans. Very tough times..

]]> By: ahe http://operawatch.com/news/2008/03/is-apple-looking-to-svg-as-a-flash-replacement-for-the-iphone.html#comment-73242 ahe Thu, 06 Mar 2008 18:19:55 +0000 http://operawatch.com/news/2008/03/is-apple-looking-to-svg-as-a-flash-replacement-for-the-iphone.html#comment-73242 It would be great to see a company like Apple pushing SVG. Flash is a bad solution because it's only available as a plugin with no chance of getting a native implementation in any browser in the near future. And sometime this year we will see a ridiculous format war between Flash and Silverlight. From an technical point of view the best solution would be to have SVG for vector graphics and a free video codec like Theora standardized as part of HTML5 for playing video on the web. It would be great to see a company like Apple pushing SVG. Flash is a bad solution because it’s only available as a plugin with no chance of getting a native implementation in any browser in the near future. And sometime this year we will see a ridiculous format war between Flash and Silverlight.

From an technical point of view the best solution would be to have SVG for vector graphics and a free video codec like Theora standardized as part of HTML5 for playing video on the web.

]]> By: Nystor http://operawatch.com/news/2008/03/is-apple-looking-to-svg-as-a-flash-replacement-for-the-iphone.html#comment-73241 Nystor Thu, 06 Mar 2008 18:13:33 +0000 http://operawatch.com/news/2008/03/is-apple-looking-to-svg-as-a-flash-replacement-for-the-iphone.html#comment-73241 <blockquote>Silverlight will die a slow death.</blockquote> Nope. It is a standard MS paid lots of money to major websites, so they are going to use it as a main content platform. You'll have to use SL or not see a content. SL has a VERY important bonus of total .NET integration, that makes it accessible for ALL current C# programmers, thus making it accessible to 100s more times more people than action script and flash in general. Simply put, it is VERY simple to write and deploy Silverlight application. Yes, it does not work with Opera(ver 2.o compatiblity isnt confirmed) and Safari (ver 2.0 should work), but all other 99% users can see it no problem.

Silverlight will die a slow death.

Nope. It is a standard MS paid lots of money to major websites, so they are going to use it as a main content platform. You’ll have to use SL or not see a content.

SL has a VERY important bonus of total .NET integration, that makes it accessible for ALL current C# programmers, thus making it accessible to 100s more times more people than action script and flash in general. Simply put, it is VERY simple to write and deploy Silverlight application.

Yes, it does not work with Opera(ver 2.o compatiblity isnt confirmed) and Safari (ver 2.0 should work), but all other 99% users can see it no problem.

]]> By: Hi EveryBody http://operawatch.com/news/2008/03/is-apple-looking-to-svg-as-a-flash-replacement-for-the-iphone.html#comment-73239 Hi EveryBody Thu, 06 Mar 2008 16:52:37 +0000 http://operawatch.com/news/2008/03/is-apple-looking-to-svg-as-a-flash-replacement-for-the-iphone.html#comment-73239 Again, bob, how Flash or any design or development tool or platform is used on a site- any site- is up to the designer of that site, not Flash itself. If you have some sort of freaky predjudice against Flash, then that's your business but to blame Flash for something that is the designer's fault is wrong. Again, bob, how Flash or any design or development tool or platform is used on a site- any site- is up to the designer of that site, not Flash itself. If you have some sort of freaky predjudice against Flash, then that’s your business but to blame Flash for something that is the designer’s fault is wrong.

]]> By: Ilgaz http://operawatch.com/news/2008/03/is-apple-looking-to-svg-as-a-flash-replacement-for-the-iphone.html#comment-73238 Ilgaz Thu, 06 Mar 2008 14:57:18 +0000 http://operawatch.com/news/2008/03/is-apple-looking-to-svg-as-a-flash-replacement-for-the-iphone.html#comment-73238 Apple could pick the CPU N96 uses and Flash being CPU intensive would be non issue. J2ME is bad? Put real Java Desktop inside it. That device (iPhone) is not a cheap PDA, it is a luxury device running a stripped down but real OS X with high end 2D acceleration (via opengl) technology. Flash using too much CPU is a reality on OS X. It is up to Apple to ask "Your plugin runs in my browser thread and I am getting negative feedback from users, how do you manage to use 90% CPU? Don't you use (whatever) feature?" instead of distorting the reality to validate their commercial reasoning behind not putting flash inside a $3000 PDA. As an end user, I mailed Adobe several times to put an end to wrong permissions problem, use acceleration, use CPU features as Altivec/SSE. I am sure people at Opera watching every single tick of CPU on their own code are also sick of the flash plugin hogging the CPU and putting blame on browser too but they don't use it as excuse to lock down their users. The issue with any browser plugin is: Non technical users will see Safari/Opera use 90% CPU and flooding memory on a basic site. The real issue in 99% of times: Plugin and even Extension in Mozilla case. The plugin runs in browsers thread and non technical sees Opera/Safari use 90% CPU, blames browser. It is same thing happening since first browser plugin released. Nobody will mail Adobe as "Your plugin running in Thread 2 kills my CPU", instead they mail browser vendor blaming the browser. Anyway, if SVG could be used as a complete iTunes store replacement, it would be "SVG is too bad", that is my point. No way to prove of course. Apple could pick the CPU N96 uses and Flash being CPU intensive would be non issue. J2ME is bad? Put real Java Desktop inside it. That device (iPhone) is not a cheap PDA, it is a luxury device running a stripped down but real OS X with high end 2D acceleration (via opengl) technology.

Flash using too much CPU is a reality on OS X. It is up to Apple to ask “Your plugin runs in my browser thread and I am getting negative feedback from users, how do you manage to use 90% CPU? Don’t you use (whatever) feature?” instead of distorting the reality to validate their commercial reasoning behind not putting flash inside a $3000 PDA.

As an end user, I mailed Adobe several times to put an end to wrong permissions problem, use acceleration, use CPU features as Altivec/SSE.

I am sure people at Opera watching every single tick of CPU on their own code are also sick of the flash plugin hogging the CPU and putting blame on browser too but they don’t use it as excuse to lock down their users.

The issue with any browser plugin is: Non technical users will see Safari/Opera use 90% CPU and flooding memory on a basic site. The real issue in 99% of times: Plugin and even Extension in Mozilla case. The plugin runs in browsers thread and non technical sees Opera/Safari use 90% CPU, blames browser. It is same thing happening since first browser plugin released. Nobody will mail Adobe as “Your plugin running in Thread 2 kills my CPU”, instead they mail browser vendor blaming the browser.

Anyway, if SVG could be used as a complete iTunes store replacement, it would be “SVG is too bad”, that is my point. No way to prove of course.

]]> By: John McCoy http://operawatch.com/news/2008/03/is-apple-looking-to-svg-as-a-flash-replacement-for-the-iphone.html#comment-73237 John McCoy Thu, 06 Mar 2008 14:34:35 +0000 http://operawatch.com/news/2008/03/is-apple-looking-to-svg-as-a-flash-replacement-for-the-iphone.html#comment-73237 Steve Jobs is an arrogant person. First he was against Java: "Java already born dead". Now he are saying that Flash is not good enough for iPhone? I think that iPhone IS NOT good enough for us. Steve Jobs is an arrogant person. First he was against Java: “Java already born dead”. Now he are saying that Flash is not good enough for iPhone?
I think that iPhone IS NOT good enough for us.

]]> By: Ilgaz http://operawatch.com/news/2008/03/is-apple-looking-to-svg-as-a-flash-replacement-for-the-iphone.html#comment-73236 Ilgaz Thu, 06 Mar 2008 14:32:34 +0000 http://operawatch.com/news/2008/03/is-apple-looking-to-svg-as-a-flash-replacement-for-the-iphone.html#comment-73236 Don't get fooled by SJobs. He is the same guy who said Java (J2ME) is a security risk. If you are harrassed by Flash ads, pick the sites you browse better. Flash is the de facto standard for multimedia on Web. The sites you call "rubbish" could be top 10-100 sites on web or their functionality could be very important for some people. Not supporting a thing just because it hurts your nerd feelings is very Mozilla like attitude. SVG has no commercial use for now, people buying a browser or a expensive PDA expects to have all features (including real youtube). Opera's and Nokia's (N96) decision to support flash is the right thing, Apple is just very afraid of the insane multimedia and commercial abilities of Flash. Imagine having a Flash music store on iPhone. That is why Apple didn't put Java and Flash to iPhone. If I was Sun Inc. I would sue Apple for distributing false information about Java as well as Adobe should about Flash. My E65 (Nokia) shows Flash lite fine, I am expecting Flash Lite 3 with Opera 9.5 Mobile. SVG? Nokia Phone UI is actually SVG. Everything has their places as Nokia or Opera aren't afraid of anyone actually get rid of their locked music store ;) Don’t get fooled by SJobs. He is the same guy who said Java (J2ME) is a security risk.

If you are harrassed by Flash ads, pick the sites you browse better. Flash is the de facto standard for multimedia on Web. The sites you call “rubbish” could be top 10-100 sites on web or their functionality could be very important for some people. Not supporting a thing just because it hurts your nerd feelings is very Mozilla like attitude.

SVG has no commercial use for now, people buying a browser or a expensive PDA expects to have all features (including real youtube). Opera’s and Nokia’s (N96) decision to support flash is the right thing, Apple is just very afraid of the insane multimedia and commercial abilities of Flash. Imagine having a Flash music store on iPhone. That is why Apple didn’t put Java and Flash to iPhone.

If I was Sun Inc. I would sue Apple for distributing false information about Java as well as Adobe should about Flash. My E65 (Nokia) shows Flash lite fine, I am expecting Flash Lite 3 with Opera 9.5 Mobile.

SVG? Nokia Phone UI is actually SVG. Everything has their places as Nokia or Opera aren’t afraid of anyone actually get rid of their locked music store ;)

]]> By: MrF http://operawatch.com/news/2008/03/is-apple-looking-to-svg-as-a-flash-replacement-for-the-iphone.html#comment-73235 MrF Thu, 06 Mar 2008 13:28:03 +0000 http://operawatch.com/news/2008/03/is-apple-looking-to-svg-as-a-flash-replacement-for-the-iphone.html#comment-73235 The new Nokia N96 has full Flash support, not just the Lite version. (BTW, Nokia Internet Tablets also have full Flash.) The new Nokia N96 has full Flash support, not just the Lite version. (BTW, Nokia Internet Tablets also have full Flash.)

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