Comments on: A word about marketing at Opera http://operawatch.com/news/2007/08/a-word-about-marketing-at-opera.html A blog covering the latest buzz on the Opera browser and its competition. Sat, 13 Feb 2010 08:45:11 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: mabdul http://operawatch.com/news/2007/08/a-word-about-marketing-at-opera.html/comment-page-2#comment-67505 mabdul Mon, 10 Sep 2007 13:19:45 +0000 http://operawatch.com/news/2007/08/a-word-about-marketing-at-opera.html#comment-67505 i have an idea for the new name for the browser: multitorg ^^ i have an idea for the new name for the browser: multitorg ^^

]]> By: firebot http://operawatch.com/news/2007/08/a-word-about-marketing-at-opera.html/comment-page-2#comment-67139 firebot Wed, 29 Aug 2007 17:18:31 +0000 http://operawatch.com/news/2007/08/a-word-about-marketing-at-opera.html#comment-67139 Impressive how you manage to weasel your way out of lying about Opera, Asa. I see that you are a spin master of hitherto unknown proportions. Let's return to your claim, contrary to all known facts, that Opera users "cannot be a part of the testing Kestrel process". Then explain to me how catching you lying means that you cannot be part of the "Opera community". Which community is that, by the way? The one where you make up stuff about Opera, or is it when you try to talk yourself out of having to explain Firefox's many long-term open security holes? Impressive how you manage to weasel your way out of lying about Opera, Asa. I see that you are a spin master of hitherto unknown proportions. Let’s return to your claim, contrary to all known facts, that Opera users “cannot be a part of the testing Kestrel process”. Then explain to me how catching you lying means that you cannot be part of the “Opera community”. Which community is that, by the way? The one where you make up stuff about Opera, or is it when you try to talk yourself out of having to explain Firefox’s many long-term open security holes?

]]> By: :) http://operawatch.com/news/2007/08/a-word-about-marketing-at-opera.html/comment-page-2#comment-67113 :) Wed, 29 Aug 2007 07:01:00 +0000 http://operawatch.com/news/2007/08/a-word-about-marketing-at-opera.html#comment-67113 Spinning, spinning, spinning, out of control ;) Spinning, spinning, spinning, out of control ;)

]]> By: Asa Dotzler http://operawatch.com/news/2007/08/a-word-about-marketing-at-opera.html/comment-page-2#comment-67108 Asa Dotzler Tue, 28 Aug 2007 23:13:22 +0000 http://operawatch.com/news/2007/08/a-word-about-marketing-at-opera.html#comment-67108 Because I work on another browser, I'm not allowed to be a part of the Opera community? Wow, nice exclusive club you've got yourself. And what did you do to earn the keys to the kingdom and the right to close the gate on contributors? My dearest interests have little to do with browsers at all -- I've got a life outside of work :-) but I am sincere in hoping and advocating that Opera become a more open and participatory organization. I hope the same for the Safari/WebKit teams -- and for Mozilla where we can still do more. The Web depends on browser vendors sharing a set of goals that include free and open standards, user participation, and vendor cooperation. Mozilla has already begun to demonstrate how we can work together (see the recent security tools release from Mozilla) to make the Web a better place for users. I'll repeat that I'm glad the people doing the actual work of producing browsers at Opera don't share your closed-minded attitude. Did the Opera Desktop team tell Mozilla to take their security tools and shove it? No, they embraced Mozilla's helpful tools and used them to improve Opera's security. One day, more of the Opera fans who have knee-jerk reactions will follow the lead of the Opera developers and embrace Mozilla and Firefox as allies in a shared fight for a free and open internet which benefits all of the world. It's still early though and I don't expect you all to have taken full note of the direction Opera's actually going. - A Because I work on another browser, I’m not allowed to be a part of the Opera community? Wow, nice exclusive club you’ve got yourself. And what did you do to earn the keys to the kingdom and the right to close the gate on contributors?

My dearest interests have little to do with browsers at all — I’ve got a life outside of work :-) but I am sincere in hoping and advocating that Opera become a more open and participatory organization. I hope the same for the Safari/WebKit teams — and for Mozilla where we can still do more.

The Web depends on browser vendors sharing a set of goals that include free and open standards, user participation, and vendor cooperation. Mozilla has already begun to demonstrate how we can work together (see the recent security tools release from Mozilla) to make the Web a better place for users.

I’ll repeat that I’m glad the people doing the actual work of producing browsers at Opera don’t share your closed-minded attitude. Did the Opera Desktop team tell Mozilla to take their security tools and shove it? No, they embraced Mozilla’s helpful tools and used them to improve Opera’s security.

One day, more of the Opera fans who have knee-jerk reactions will follow the lead of the Opera developers and embrace Mozilla and Firefox as allies in a shared fight for a free and open internet which benefits all of the world. It’s still early though and I don’t expect you all to have taken full note of the direction Opera’s actually going.

- A

]]> By: AsaFoolesNoone http://operawatch.com/news/2007/08/a-word-about-marketing-at-opera.html/comment-page-2#comment-67107 AsaFoolesNoone Tue, 28 Aug 2007 22:38:55 +0000 http://operawatch.com/news/2007/08/a-word-about-marketing-at-opera.html#comment-67107 It strikes me as odd that a public spokesman of Mozilla corp believes he can fool the readers of this blog that he's dearest interest is to get the Opera users more involved in the testing of Kestrel and not the fact that Mozilla maybe very curious about what Opera is up to... You haven't started planning for Firefox 6? Need items for your roadmap? Asa you talk about transparency, but people here see the transparency of your agenda. Is this really how Mozilla marketing is conducted.. Trolling on competitors forums/blogs? Are you really that sleezy? It strikes me as odd that a public spokesman of Mozilla corp believes he can fool the readers of this blog that he’s dearest interest is to get the Opera users more involved in the testing of Kestrel and not the fact that Mozilla maybe very curious about what Opera is up to… You haven’t started planning for Firefox 6? Need items for your roadmap?

Asa you talk about transparency, but people here see the transparency of your agenda. Is this really how Mozilla marketing is conducted.. Trolling on competitors forums/blogs? Are you really that sleezy?

]]> By: firebot http://operawatch.com/news/2007/08/a-word-about-marketing-at-opera.html/comment-page-2#comment-67106 firebot Tue, 28 Aug 2007 22:33:06 +0000 http://operawatch.com/news/2007/08/a-word-about-marketing-at-opera.html#comment-67106 "Cannot be a part of the testing Kestrel process" means that you are claiming that there will be no weeklies, previews or betas to test before the final version is released. As everyone knows, that is wrong, because there will be weeklies. Opera Software has officially announced this fact. How you can turn a delayed Kestrel weekly into users not getting to take part in the testing process is beyond me. But then again, I don't speak the Mozilla Spin language. Shouldn't you be unbloating Firefox and plugging all those security holes or something instead of making up stuff about Opera? “Cannot be a part of the testing Kestrel process” means that you are claiming that there will be no weeklies, previews or betas to test before the final version is released. As everyone knows, that is wrong, because there will be weeklies. Opera Software has officially announced this fact.

How you can turn a delayed Kestrel weekly into users not getting to take part in the testing process is beyond me. But then again, I don’t speak the Mozilla Spin language.

Shouldn’t you be unbloating Firefox and plugging all those security holes or something instead of making up stuff about Opera?

]]> By: Asa Dotzler http://operawatch.com/news/2007/08/a-word-about-marketing-at-opera.html/comment-page-2#comment-67105 Asa Dotzler Tue, 28 Aug 2007 21:41:05 +0000 http://operawatch.com/news/2007/08/a-word-about-marketing-at-opera.html#comment-67105 firebot, I'm not making any thing up. People on this thread are complaining that Kestrel weeklies were due a long time ago and speculating why they hadn't happened yet. Opera engineers responded that kestrel builds weren't stable enough for them to be offered to the Opera community. How you can't see that as Opera saying that you all cannot be a part of the testing Kestrel process at this point is beyond me. - A firebot, I’m not making any thing up. People on this thread are complaining that Kestrel weeklies were due a long time ago and speculating why they hadn’t happened yet. Opera engineers responded that kestrel builds weren’t stable enough for them to be offered to the Opera community.

How you can’t see that as Opera saying that you all cannot be a part of the testing Kestrel process at this point is beyond me.

- A

]]> By: firebot http://operawatch.com/news/2007/08/a-word-about-marketing-at-opera.html/comment-page-2#comment-67100 firebot Tue, 28 Aug 2007 20:25:46 +0000 http://operawatch.com/news/2007/08/a-word-about-marketing-at-opera.html#comment-67100 Opera has officially announced that there will be Kestrel weeklies, and yet Asa concludes that "Opera doesn’t really believe that you all should be a part of the process at this point". Hats off to you, Mr. Dotzler. You have reached a new low. If you want to make your own company and product look better, the solution is to fix those security flaws and improve your product. Making up things about a competitor isn't going to plug the holes in your own sinking ship. Opera has officially announced that there will be Kestrel weeklies, and yet Asa concludes that “Opera doesn’t really believe that you all should be a part of the process at this point”. Hats off to you, Mr. Dotzler. You have reached a new low. If you want to make your own company and product look better, the solution is to fix those security flaws and improve your product. Making up things about a competitor isn’t going to plug the holes in your own sinking ship.

]]> By: Asa Dotzler http://operawatch.com/news/2007/08/a-word-about-marketing-at-opera.html/comment-page-2#comment-67099 Asa Dotzler Tue, 28 Aug 2007 18:16:33 +0000 http://operawatch.com/news/2007/08/a-word-about-marketing-at-opera.html#comment-67099 Or maybe Opera doesn't really believe that you all should be a part of the process at this point. That makes sense but it's at least worth acknowledging. - A Or maybe Opera doesn’t really believe that you all should be a part of the process at this point. That makes sense but it’s at least worth acknowledging.

- A

]]> By: Securityfox http://operawatch.com/news/2007/08/a-word-about-marketing-at-opera.html/comment-page-2#comment-67094 Securityfox Tue, 28 Aug 2007 08:22:35 +0000 http://operawatch.com/news/2007/08/a-word-about-marketing-at-opera.html#comment-67094 I understand that quality is low priority over at Mozilla (v2 confirms this, sadly), but Asa will just have to accept the fact that other companies do have quality standards to meet. It's like the security holes that remain open for ages in Firefox. Mozilla doesn't need to make money, so there's no need to make a great product or fix those flaws. They get free money anyway. Good enough is sufficient. And in the case of Firefox 2 (v1 was great), bad is apparently sufficient over at Mozilla. Maybe Opera strives for perfection. Maybe that's why security holes are actually fixed, and the product is made somewhat stable before the public gets to test it. I understand that quality is low priority over at Mozilla (v2 confirms this, sadly), but Asa will just have to accept the fact that other companies do have quality standards to meet.

It’s like the security holes that remain open for ages in Firefox. Mozilla doesn’t need to make money, so there’s no need to make a great product or fix those flaws. They get free money anyway. Good enough is sufficient. And in the case of Firefox 2 (v1 was great), bad is apparently sufficient over at Mozilla.

Maybe Opera strives for perfection. Maybe that’s why security holes are actually fixed, and the product is made somewhat stable before the public gets to test it.

]]> By: Asa Dotzler http://operawatch.com/news/2007/08/a-word-about-marketing-at-opera.html/comment-page-1#comment-67089 Asa Dotzler Mon, 27 Aug 2007 23:38:40 +0000 http://operawatch.com/news/2007/08/a-word-about-marketing-at-opera.html#comment-67089 berend, yeah, I read that. I don't buy it. We're not talking about release to customers, we're talking about involving the Opera core community in testing new features _before_ they're fully baked. The longer in the development cycle they wait, the less real impact Opera testers are able to make. If that's their goal, then I certainly understand them wanting to wait. If it's not their goal and they're really as interested in having the Opera community participate in meaningful ways as they say, then there's no harm, and only good, in letting those participants see it before it's "ready". - A berend, yeah, I read that. I don’t buy it. We’re not talking about release to customers, we’re talking about involving the Opera core community in testing new features _before_ they’re fully baked. The longer in the development cycle they wait, the less real impact Opera testers are able to make. If that’s their goal, then I certainly understand them wanting to wait. If it’s not their goal and they’re really as interested in having the Opera community participate in meaningful ways as they say, then there’s no harm, and only good, in letting those participants see it before it’s “ready”.

- A

]]> By: berend http://operawatch.com/news/2007/08/a-word-about-marketing-at-opera.html/comment-page-1#comment-67088 berend Mon, 27 Aug 2007 22:21:03 +0000 http://operawatch.com/news/2007/08/a-word-about-marketing-at-opera.html#comment-67088 @Asa Dotzler: this is from the desktopteam [quote]When we release a build with as many changes as Kestrel, we want to make sure that our users are able to use the build as much as possible, so we can get the best feedback possible. We have strict quality standards that have not yet been met.[/quote] @Asa Dotzler: this is from the desktopteam
[quote]When we release a build with as many changes as Kestrel, we want to make sure that our users are able to use the build as much as possible, so we can get the best feedback possible. We have strict quality standards that have not yet been met.[/quote]

]]> By: Asa Dotzler http://operawatch.com/news/2007/08/a-word-about-marketing-at-opera.html/comment-page-1#comment-67087 Asa Dotzler Mon, 27 Aug 2007 21:48:37 +0000 http://operawatch.com/news/2007/08/a-word-about-marketing-at-opera.html#comment-67087 If it's compiling and usable, why not let your most dedicated users test it and give feedback? They clearly want it pretty badly. Since it being functional isn't the issue, what is? I really can't think of any other reason you all wouldn't share more regularly with your devoted community. - A If it’s compiling and usable, why not let your most dedicated users test it and give feedback?

They clearly want it pretty badly. Since it being functional isn’t the issue, what is? I really can’t think of any other reason you all wouldn’t share more regularly with your devoted community.

- A

]]> By: andol http://operawatch.com/news/2007/08/a-word-about-marketing-at-opera.html/comment-page-1#comment-67083 andol Mon, 27 Aug 2007 20:29:07 +0000 http://operawatch.com/news/2007/08/a-word-about-marketing-at-opera.html#comment-67083 <blockquote>Perhaps Opera cannot release a build because builds won’t even compile or aren’t sufficiently stable to even start up.</blockquote> Or, perhaps, you are completely wrong.

Perhaps Opera cannot release a build because builds won’t even compile or aren’t sufficiently stable to even start up.

Or, perhaps, you are completely wrong.

]]> By: karaj http://operawatch.com/news/2007/08/a-word-about-marketing-at-opera.html/comment-page-1#comment-67080 karaj Mon, 27 Aug 2007 20:04:20 +0000 http://operawatch.com/news/2007/08/a-word-about-marketing-at-opera.html#comment-67080 ASA, there are internal build which are working pretty good. It DOES compile, as you can see I'm already using it. ASA, there are internal build which are working pretty good. It DOES compile, as you can see I’m already using it.

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