Q: Will M2 ever be released as a standalone client?

A: I don’t think that will happen anytime soon. M2 benefits a lot from being an integrated part of Opera. Don’t forget that almost every mail client has to include a complete rendering engine just to show HTML mails, where we can just use the facilities that are already there.

While it’s great that common components/libraries can be reused, it can and should be made available a seperate application. There are a lot of people that may be interested in M2 for its emailing capabilities, such as indexed search. But right now the fact that its integrated in some browser they don’t or won’t use, is holding them back. It doesn’t look like an email client, doesn’t feel like one, so outsiders may not be accept it as one.

I still remember how fond we were of the innovative M2. Back then.

Anyway, I think we’re losing sight of the fact that this is Daniel’s blog and not a debates and discussions forum. If you want to debate on this issue, then do it here.

facts, that you cant argue with [and you dont even try, instead you discard all my points attacking single sentences took out of the context - it is called sophismate in latin, and you cant even do it properly] are that M2 isnt a fully functional email client that is in any way competetive to modern mail-apps like outlook, thunderbird or even eudora.

m2 is outdated. period. these changes mentioned in interview, even if implemented fully in kestrel are not going to change that. sadly, because 5 yrs ago m2 was VERY innovative, sadly its developments was virtualy stoped for years. world moved on, m2 did not.

“It’s not about living in parallel universes, “rather underwhelmed”. It’s about hyping one’s own product. Clearly you are clueless about product development and marketing.”

ive mentioned several times, that hype is something opera developers dont understand, and probably will never do. they think that having better product is going to suffice. problem with opera is that it isnt clearly better than firefox, but certainly firefox is better sold. not to mention safari that people would pay for using if apple wanted.

[and please dont bs about mozilla being funded externaly - money spent on 'opera days' that only opera-users-and-geeks-at-the-same-time knew about could be better spent on press ads in gaming magazines to gain NEW users! besides there are completly free ways of attracting new users, or spreading the world. how it came that uTorrent is known by 90% of torrent users? how many millions theyve spent on marketing BEFORE being aquired by some big company. re.: none]

same is going to happen, when apple manages to create working and easy to use [they always manage to do that part] multi-sync between mac, web and iphone. opera had it at hands reach years ago – same application on many platforms, but.. they didnt do that. how pitty that again somebody is going to take all the fame and money. opera’s invention, true, but somebody is going to do it better and TELL THE WORLD ABOUT IT. nobody is going to remember that it was opera’ idea – like with most features ’stolen’ from it, they are now all ‘firefox’ inventions. and nobody sane is going to blame ff for this. it works that way, you know, in real world.

ff gets the press – are you going to say that mozilla paid all the press of the world to spread the world about ff and forbid them to write about opera?

but, maybe it is opera fault again? i know companies in my country that sell gas pipes, that have better press coverage than opera.. c’mon!

btw. mozilla did what it should do – copied everything theyve found worthy of opera and implemented it. it is rather strange, that opera doesnt do itself. ff/tb both have features that sould be copied, because people USE THEM, and DEMAND them in the forums [spell-check, autofill - how old are these wish list entries? 4 or 5 years for autofill i think].

It’s not about living in parallel universes, “rather underwhelmed”. It’s about hyping one’s own product. Clearly you are clueless about product development and marketing.

You lost the other discussion about Speed Dial. Let’s not force me to give you an a** whooping here too

and worry about your own a** mr nelson, discussing with someone who uses arguments ‘you know nothing’ is a waste of time, that i prefer wasting looking as the paint dries.

much more tempting than reading what you have to say (nothing in fact, you only contest, never say anything on your own).

Seeing as he completely ignored the information about the new IMAP stuff I don’t see the point in arguing with him anymore. He clearly lives in his own little world.

That’s right: Mac OS X, .Mac, and iPhone!”

dont worry, opera fanboys [and deveoplers ] are not going to understand this, even if somebody had written it on the sky.
dont worry, instead of web sync we are going to get something.. innovatively stupid and with marginal usefulnes – like widgets 2.0

“Opera is not trying to compete with Outlook! Get a grip, and stop being a pompous knowitall.”

so opera is doing wrong. not because opera should aim at being industry standard. no. it is because opera should aim at what outlook does – it works! IMAP support in M2 SUCKS! it is the best word to describe it – it SUCKS. i wasnt able to get it to work with any mail interface present in our company [thunderbird, eudora, outlook/express all worked fine]. pop3 isnt the preffered solution in corpo environment.

and besides, outlook beats opera not only in its PIM compnent [that we ignore in this disscussion, it should be there, but it isnt, matter closed], but in simple usefulnes. backups? exports? html composition? attatchment management? no matter how much MS is in outlook, it simply does the job better. filters being the only thing opera does better, and that is only up to when somebody out of pure boredom writes a plugin to extend outlook. you cant do that with opera. it is so 1990ish

Opera is not trying to compete with Outlook! Get a grip, and stop being a pompous knowitall. Arjan knows what he’s doing, you don’t.

But as Arjan sais, this can be a little confusing for regular uses and changes to the UI in Peregrine seem to revolve around making this easier.