Mitchell Baker, the CEO of Mozilla, told APC Magazine that they’re looking into porting Firefox to mobile phones.
She said:
“Opera has done a pretty good job of getting something useful on to a mobile device, but it’s not a full fledged and doesn’t have the capabilities of Firefox.”
Hmm… enlighten me.
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Q: What is Opera?
A: Opera is one of the most powerful Web browsers around. A Web browser is the program that allows you to view Web pages. Opera is well known for innovation for PC browsers and bringing the full web to mobile phones and devices.
Q: Is Opera free?
A: Absolutely free.
Q: Why should I download a browser? Doesn't my computer already come with one for free?
A: It's about getting more out of the time you spend on the internet. Opera is designed to be much faster than these browsers and gives you powerful features that the default browser lacks. Default browsers like Internet Explorer are also more likely to be subjected to dangerous software such as viruses and spyware.
Q: Will Opera keep me safe from fraudulent websites and malicious hackers?
A: According to Secunia, a respected firm that tracks security in browsers, Opera has the best reputation and track record when it comes to browser security. Keeping our users safe from security vulnerabilities, fraudulent websites, and malicious hackers is a top priority for Opera. Opera is maintained by hundreds of engineers, developers and security experts who are constantly looking to make the browser even safer.
Q: Doesn't Opera copy all of their features from other browsers?
A: Absolutely not. In fact, many of the features that are popular in other browsers today were invented and pioneered by Opera a long time ago. Opera invented the precursor to tabs (in 1994), Page Zoom (1994), was the first browser to block pop-up ads (2000), first to add a Search field in the browser toolbar (2000), Sessions (1996), deleting private data (2000), Mouse Gestures (2000), User JavaScript (2005), BitTorrent support (2005), Widgets (2006), Speed Dial (2007), and much more.
Q: Does Opera support extensions, such as those found in Firefox?
A: Much of the functionality provided through Firefox extensions is already built directly into Opera, so you don't have to download additional extensions in Opera. In addition, Opera is highly customizable and supports all standard plug-ins.
Q: Can I also use Opera on my mobile phone?
A: Yes. And your Nintendo Wii, Nintendo DS or almost any connected device and mobile phones. Opera Mobile oftens comes preinstalled from the manufacturers, but if it doesn't you can install Opera Mini which runs on nearly all phones.
Q: This all sounds great, so how do I download Opera?
A: -- Opera on your computer
-- Opera Mini on your phone
-- Opera Mobile on your phone
-- or learn more about Opera at www.opera.com
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“Opera has done a pretty good job of getting something useful on to a mobile device, but it’s not a full fledged and doesn’t have the capabilities of Firefox.”
I almost did a spit-take with my cereal there when I read that this morning! Those Mozilla people are endlessly arrogant and deluded as to what their own software is capable of.
As a buddy of mine joked when I mentioned this to him, the only thing Firefox has that Opera doesn’t is a huge spin marketing team.
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I think she’s referring to the fact that both Opera Mobile and Opera Mini are cut down versions of Opera Desktop (while Safari on the iPhone is supposed to be the full browser). As for the capabilities of Firefox I think she’s referring to add-ons.
Mozilla already have a web browser for the phone; it’s called Minimo. But it’s performance is so poor that even Firefox fanboys use Opera on their phones.
The article is still a good read, at one point she talks about providing direct access to things you like to access on a desktop - which reminds me of Widgets.
I think all competition is good and hope that Mozilla can produce a useful product. However seeing the issues gecko has with memory, I don’t foresee this mobile version of firefox coming out soon and it definitely has a lot to catch up to with Opera.
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Before you assume the worst, perhaps she’s thinking of Opera Mini? Which, to be honest, isn’t a full-fledged browser.
In fact, if you look a few paragraphs earlier in that chunk of the interview, it turns out she is talking about an Opera Mini-like system:
Or you can continue to assume that Mozilla is evil and only zombies use Firefox. It won’t accomplish anything as far as promoting Opera, but if it makes you feel better, who am I to argue?
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Kelson, ah. I guess she’s referring to Opera Mini, without mentioning “Mini”.
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Daniel: Just wanted to clarify, the tone of my post was directed mainly at FyberOptic’s comments about Mozilla folks being endlessly arrogant and deluded.
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Bloated code on the desktop certainly doesn’t convince me that they’ll be able to make non-bloated code on the phone. It sounds like they really have no clue what they’re working with: mobile phones have much lower specs than desktops. Putting in every feature that’s in the desktop version is likely to use up a ton of extra screen space, slow down the browsing tremendously, and my personal favorite, crash your phone multiple times, as that is the Firefox way.
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It is very funny…Firefox and the mobil browsing
http://operawatch.com/news/2007/03/mozilla-cto-doesnt-think-people-will-browse-the-web-on-phones-huh.html#comments
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So that a future firefox like browser in portable devices has better performance that Opera Mini or Mobile they (Mozilla) would have to clear many of its features making to this new firefox version inferior to the full fledge version that Mitchell Baker is promising and of course inferior to Opera Mini and Opera Mobile.
Until not seeing a real firefox version working in phones and portables devices (not ideas or proofs of concept), all this is pure noise and marketing
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Nope.
Opera Mini is cut down.
Opera Mobile uses the same rendering engine as Opera Desktop.
I’m still wondering why she would mention only Opera Mini in this context. If she did refer to Opera Mini she is still being dishonest because Opera does have a full mobile browser called Opera Mobile.
Your thoughts, Kelson?
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“It is very funny…Firefox and the mobil browsing
http://operawatch.com/news/2007/03/mozilla-cto-doesnt-think-people-will-browse-the-web-on-phones-huh.html#comments”
Funny Picture
:D 
:D
Firefox will manage to produce a decent browser in a phone or PDA when these one have 1 GB of RAM which it won´t happen soon.
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Deja Vu. The Mozilla FUD machine is amazing.
http://my.opera.com/haavard/blog/show.dml/7371
http://my.opera.com/haavard/blog/show.dml/15396
Either they pretend that Opera doesn’t exist and credit themselves with stuff Opera has been doing for years.
Or they mention Opera, but give a false description of it so that people think that it isn’t really a full browser anyway, and that Mozilla will come to the rescue.
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As far as I’ve heard about Minimo, it’s only a special stylesheet applied to Gecko rendering engine with a Firefox-like interface. But it was months (years?) ago, and I hope they changed the behavior.
The Minimo Project page has apparently recently been updated.
Referring to the quotation you put, Daniel, everything I see in Minimo list of features is already in Opera Mobile (except, as always, extensions).
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Hey chill people!
Mitchell is a lawyer, not a tech geek. Therefore she doesn’t know the ins and outs of every piece of software. So ok, she maybe should have said that she was unsure of the details.
I find it hard to believe though that she is trying to be evil or spread FUD.
Mozilla is nowhere on the mobile browsing market - Opera is everywhere. That’s a known fact. Even she knows that, and sort of said so.
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I’m not sure how the quoted text could have been read as “Opera desktop is not as full-fledged as Firefox”. Not that it isn’t true, think add-ons. As it is true that “Firefox isn’t as full fledged as Opera desktop”, think SpeedDial or an email client.
But Mitchell was clearly referring to Opera Mini/Mobile. I, unfortunately, haven’t tried it as my cell phone a featureless as possible. But from comments here, readings there and common sense I would guess it is true. Sooner or later a cell phone will have enough power to run today’s desktop apps so the possibility is just a matter of time.
Regarding the high memory usage, it is of course true. Now, even with 512 MB and multitasking 10 apps (Word, Excel, Outlook, IE, Winamp, SnagIt, Firefox, Remote Desktop) I don’t really notice the memory climbing up until I launch the task manager (in Windows). Of course there must be people who may need 20 or 30 apps at a time and I hope Mozilla takes care of the memory issues anyhow.
Also remember a lot of code and memory is used by the Mozilla framework that powers Firefox and among other thing enables its customization through add-ons.
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Article with a poor (ignorant) review about Opera Mobile 8.5 of a year ago.
http://msmobiles.com/news.php/4812.html
I like this quote “Lack of tabs is very disappointing though and in the view of the situation that for Pocket PC several other browsers (with tabs!) are available like Minimo (free) and NetFront (commercial) - the Opera is not the best.”
e.l. For the reviewer it is more important have tabs than to have a good performance, speed, low memory requirements, excellente rendering pages!
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@This dude: I’m sorry, you’re making entirely too much sense for this discussion, and thinking far too rationally.
Remember: When someone at Opera says something disparaging/inaccurate/misleading about Firefox, it’s a misunderstanding. When someone at Mozilla says something disparaging/inaccurate/misleading about Opera, it’s arrogance and/or part of an ongoing FUD campaign. Get with the program!
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Regarding what Mitchell said, was that supposed to be funny? Cause it’s not. Either he’s been misquoted somehow or he’s just plain old ignorant…
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I will wait and see before dismissing FF for mobile. I like Opera Mini a lot and it works flawlessly in my cellphone. But if it’s anything like its desktop cousin, I’d be very disappointed.
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@Kelson
I don’t have any regrets about my statements, because I’m pretty much convinced that they’re true. Mozilla foundation and many of those connected to it make far too many of these “accidental” boasts and mistruths about their product, as well as in regards to Opera. Then the fans do it as much and even more so, because they have no reason to disbelieve any of it. There are people out there who truly believe Firefox is the safest and fastest browser because of such FUD, when they’re obviously getting a false sense of security due to all the serious vulnerabilities its had since the get go, which get quietly swept under the rug and patched (sometimes).
Heck, the other day, I saw some completely blinded fanboy trying to argue that Firefox has been around longer than Opera, completely refusing to look at Wikipedia or speed tests or anything because they were probably “edited by Opera fanboys”.
I still use Firefox for certain things once in a while, because it’s a decent piece of software, and because there are still incompetent site designers. But I see its very evident performance and design problems, just as I even see Opera’s shortcomings at times. But Opera steadily succeeds in business due to having a quality product, and now continues to do so in the mobile arena for the same reason. Mozilla is currently only succeeding based on a flashy name and mistruths, not a solid product, and certainly not one capable of being properly ported to the mobile arena.
Back when it was just the Mozilla browser, nobody cared. And yet the sad irony is that Mozilla runs faster than Firefox today. I wonder where Opera would be today if it had gotten a flashier name…
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Chief Lizard Wrangler Vs Iraqi Information Minister:
http://my.opera.com/dstorey/blog/chief-lizard-wrangler-vs-iraqi-information-minister
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Very funny
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Percy
It didn’t. She was talking about how Opera’s mobile browser wasn’t “full-fledged”.
Mini cut down, Mobile isn’t. When you realize that either ignoring Opera or pretending that it hasn’t done full browsing for ages is a common theme when Mozilla representatives talk about their own mobile browser is a pattern you will see where she is coming from.
Kelson
Yes, because this is something that keeps repeating itself. Look at the links provided earlier. This is a pattern.
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How come all of a sudden is she referring to Opera mini when the subject of that part of the interview is Firefox on mobile phones (which would led to a Opera Mobile comparison) and not Firefox as a server-side application a la Opera mini?.
Either she is completely ignorant about the applications on the mobile market (if so, she shouldn’t be talking about this stuff in the first place) or she has started the FUD machine. Take your pick.
Kelson:
“When someone at Opera says something disparaging/inaccurate/misleading about Firefox, it’s a misunderstanding. When someone at Mozilla says something disparaging/inaccurate/misleading about Opera, it’s arrogance and/or part of an ongoing FUD campaign.”
Not really, Opera has made quite a few dumb moves itself which I consider FUD at its best: remember the whole PCMagazine award fiasco, for example.
Fanboyism aside, a bogus claim is a bogus claim no matter where it comes from and this quote by the Mozilla CEO is objectively both dissapointing and bogus as I explained above.
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FX can be innovative. Opera also. And there’s still plenty of room for improvements. He’s probably comparing free mobile versions from FX and Opera, which is a valid standpoint.
I just hope Opera will add user-requested features first. It’s after all, about the best Internet experience.
But I won’t hesitate to use FX on mobile if it has/emulates an IM chat extension, bookmarks syncronisation, site preferences, or anything else I’ve become addicted on the desktop. I fear for the phone’s cost/speed/run time, but all things considered, “Go ahead, Mozilla Foundation!”.
In other news, Ubuntu for smartphones: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/6634195.stm
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I was surprised by the comment (it is unfair), but I think you have to read the context. Mitchell want on to point out that the same point could be made about any mobile-phone based browser. I think this included any upcoming Mozilla-based systems (Minimo or whatever else).
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Dale that was not a attack on Mozilla. That was a mistake. Mistakes can happen without intend being to spread FUD.
-Olli
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@Olli
Ok, if you say so I take it. Then again, you are an Opera employee so I wouldn’t expect otherwise; it’s not like you would admit that something is a well thought FUD campaign from Opera. :p
Anyway, this whole “Mozilla on Mobile” thing did not have a good start (the Minimo guy making things up about Opera not being as portable as Minimo; more than 2 years later Minimo is nothing more than a toy project so go figure) and it’s getting worse now that the CEO is making bogus claims. Now we only need Asa’s insightful comments to get the whole package…
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I don’t understand whats the big deal about Opera Mini not being full fledged web browser? It opens all required web sites doesn’t it?
Plus being small its easy to load my cell phones with low memory and due to its specially rendered web page it uses way too less data. Which is very helpful when you browse a lot on mobile with costly GPRS plans.
To be honest I have never ever opened builtin web browser of my Nokia 6630 ever since I installed Opera Mini, and so have many of my friends to whom I introduced to Opera Mini
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Dale: If it was the other way around I wouldnt reply here in shame of us doing something that was soo obvious to backfire
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yes I know that, but from a feature point of view it is cut down, but that’s to be expected (heck, what good are mouse gestures on a phone?)
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This whole discussion is retarded.
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Just like all endless web browser fanboy discussions…
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So I’ll just kill it off with a few useless comments.
Never fails.
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@Dale
which turned out to be a mistake. They retracted and apologized.
Has Mozilla retracted any of its FUD against Opera? Nope.
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I guess I’ll just have to post another one.
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Naylor is apparently quite the Firefox fanboy. His website has the logo crammed right in your face, after all.
The immaturity shown here by him pretty much sums up that of the majority of the Firefox community. If you can’t prove Firefox is better, then just be as annoying as possible. They taught him well.
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Please let’s not attack anyone personally.
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I’m just waiting for someone to pop up and say hey, we’re trying to have a fud war here…
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Can’t you peeps take a joke? Besides, when i tried giving you some serious arguments above (see “This dude”) nobody listened apart from Kelson.
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>>>Can’t you peeps take a joke? Besides, when i tried giving you some serious arguments above (see “This dude”) nobody listened apart from Kelson.
Umm, a joke is supposed to be funny. That was really just annoying babble. The discussion beforehand was at least contributing some good points aside from fanboyism.
Anyway…. I think it was the sense that Mitchell made the comments during the interview and its overall tone that set some people off. It starts off by saying that all phone browsers suck, but without mentioning why. From what I’ve seen, it’s mainly the constraints on the devices. The Mozilla crew will have a fun time dealing with that.
Also, I guess knowing that Mitchell is a lawyer kind of puts things into more perspective. She must work on mainly management/legal right? A bit interesting for her to get caught in an interview like this when she doesn’t know all the details.
Finally, from what I’ve seen, the projects to get Firefox on a phone seem more focused on just content instead of a full browser. More like downloading multiple things to a phone to get different pieces of information when you can simply go to a webpage. Sounds more difficult if that is what’s being planned in the Mozilla labs.
Anyway, hope I picked up on some of your points David.
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“A bit interesting for her to get caught in an interview like this when she doesn’t know all the details.”
Yeah, agreed.