Some questioning whether Opera 9 passes the Acid2 Test
Published July 14th, 2006 1:20 PM EDT By Daniel GoldmanA post on the Web Standards Project (WaSP) blog seems to question whether Opera 9 passes the Acid2 test.
In March of this year, Opera first released a version of the desktop browser in the form of a ‘weekly build’ that passed the Acid2 test. With the release of Opera 9 last month, it too passed to Acid2 test. Or at least so claimed Opera.
Now reports have come in to the WaSP claiming Opera 9 does not pass the Acid2 test under certain unique scenarios.
In my tests, which I conducted on Windows XP and NT (2000), Opera 9 appears to pass the test fully.
Haavard Moen, from Opera QA, pointed out that the claims of Opera 9 not passing the Acid2 test could’ve been based on misunderstandings, such as people scrolling or zooming the Acid2 page.
I’m sure, as Haavard pointed out, if it turned out that Opera 9 did in fact NOT pass the Acid 2 test, that they would openly acknowledge it. It’s not in Opera’s best interest to deceive the public and be dishonest.
I’m curious to know whether any of you have come across a scenario where Opera 9 doesn’t pass the Acid2 test.
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When I initially load the page, things look screwy, but once I “fit to width,” everything looks right.
Win XP Pro
Opera 9.01, 8533
(1024×768, 92 dpi)
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indeed, scrolling and zooming make the once good image fail the test (WinXP pro)
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Everything is fine. Opera passes the test perfectly.
People who claim something is wrong don’t understand the test. See here:
http://www.howtocreate.co.uk/acid/
I would bet this is some sort of anti-Opera propaganda by Mozilla. If mr. Dotzler picks this up on his blog, you’ll know who’s behind the story.
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No problems here, on either Windows or Linux (Opera 9.0 and one of the weeklies). As far as I can tell, the only issues crop up when you change the conditions under which the test is designed to run. So of course you can expect discrepancies.
Don’t forget to wear your tinfoil hat, or the black helicopters might come for you!
*sigh* Enough Mozilla folks already think of Opera fans as wackos. Proving them right isn’t going to accomplish anything.
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I agree 100%. There is no need to make this an Opera Vs. Firefox issue. It serves no purpose to either of these communities.
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That’s funny, because Opera folks think of Mozilla fans as wackos
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Blah, I don’t.
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“indeed, scrolling and zooming make the once good image fail the test”
No, it does not. Once you start scrolling and zooming, the test is no longer valid.
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Enough already with this ****. The WaSP blog entry is just FUD. Molly should explain why she posted such a vague entry and whether or not she actually knows how Acid2 works…
You can’t scroll, enable fit to width/zoom, etc.
http://www.howtocreate.co.uk/acid/
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sorry, i’m a programmer, but not familiar with web programming at all.
hate to ask a stupid question, but risking it: wouldn’t a ‘perfect’ or ‘ideal’ implementation of CSS/HTML handling code be able to correctly handle the Acid2 test code even while zooming or scrolling?
not saying it’s easy…just asking a question.
imo, Opera is THE browser of choice & has been for a while…good job Opera!
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I am using v9.01 Build 8518.
The image looks fine, but the problem is that it is scrollable. If i scroll using my mouse wheel, some portion remain back while the rest scrols normally.
This is what I mean :
http://img128.imageshack.us/img128/2047/opera5vu.gif
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The troll that spread across the internet strikes again.
The only comment I saw of interest (besides the hundreds of “re-read the test, it’s accurate…”) across all the sites I’ve seen this story on are the claims that other browser (konq, safari) don’t behave this way. How do the other passing browsers handle it? Same thing happen there when scrolling? Or is it disabled? Or is this more FUD?
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P.S. I just came across this!!!
Yet another firefox fanboy going gaga without getting the facts.
As I said the only problem is whiling scrolling, which you are not supposed to do
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Small-screen rendering fails (Shift+F11)
Scrolling fails
Resizing the window to smaller than the image fails
Zooming fails
…All of which do not constitute Opera’s core rendering engine failing the Acid2 test. It’s only the supplementary features (because Opera, unlike other browsers, actually HAS features built into it). I believe this test was written to show compatibility with the new standards–which by that definition, I believe Opera has accomplished. Opera knows how to handle all of the information in the Acid2 test.
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Definitely agree, and it doesn’t help that people like Blah (aka Howie on digg) shamelessly use confrontations like this to promote their poorly written sites. (Even going as far as creating new digg accounts so it looks like they are not alone.)
In the end though, it’s not really Opera, or Mozilla’s fault for any of it. There will always be radicals that use a good name as an excuse to do horrible things. (Crusades, terrorism, etc)
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@Ebola_Influenza: Scrolling doesn’t apply in this case, because one of the things it tests is fixed position elements. They’re supposed to line up before you scroll, and if you scroll, they should stay in place while the rest of the image moves.
The question is whether you should be able to scroll on the page. One of the complaints is that since the scroll bar is disabled, the scroll wheel should be disabled too. The response to that is that the test doesn’t specify that scrolling should be disabled.
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Pallab, it is supposed to be scrollable.
BTW, the howtocreate author always signs with his true nick. He’s not Blah or anyone else. He’s a well known authority on these things, so you definitely shot in the dark and hit your own foot, Mr. Tucker.
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Kelson, the question is not whether you should be able to scroll the page. You should. From the Acid2 guide:
“If the Acid2 page is scrolled, the scalp will stay fixed in place, becoming unstuck from the rest of the face, which will scroll.”
More here:
http://www.webstandards.org/action/acid2/guide/
Kelson, you are a reasonable fellow who is not an embarrassment to the Mozilla community. Don’t embarrass us by supporting Mr. Tucker in his crusade against common decency.
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Note that several of the ‘view’ options in Opera distort the ‘normal’ view of a webpage. That is of course their intented function. Will anyone complain that zoom in Opera (or text zoom in Firefox) makes letters defined to be shown at 12px bigger then 12px, and so ‘doesn’t support the spec correctly’? That a zoomed Jpeg image shows artefacts?
Likewise, Fit to Width and User mode are intended to disregard some or all of the page authors intentions. Of course the page doesn’t look as intended anymore after that!
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“Definitely agree, and it doesn’t help that people like Blah (aka Howie on digg) shamelessly use confrontations like this to promote their poorly written sites. (Even going as far as creating new digg accounts so it looks like they are not alone.)”
Enough already with the paranoia. Tarquin is not Howie nor Blah. He always signs with his real nick or name(Mark Wilton-Jones). Saying that his site is poorly written is just plain stupid; you don´t know what you are talking about (and it is very clear after reading your embarrassing “article”/rant).
The text quoted explains what happens to the scalp if you scroll since it is a “position: fixed”; what Opera displays is what is meant to happen.
This whole thing is nonsenical and natmaster is an embarrassment to the community.
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@Meth: Who said I was siding with him? I said from the start that I thought it was a non-issue.
I was just trying to explain that there’s no meaning to “correctly” handling the test while scrolling. Perhaps what I should have said was this: “The disagreement is whether you should be able to scroll on the page.” I hope that’s clearer.
And come to think of it, since the scrolling behavior is described in the guide, that means that there is a correct way to display it… and Opera already does it.
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why does the acid2 face scroll when theres no scrollbar?
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Fanboy:
http://www.howtocreate.co.uk/acid/#scrollbarnotes
Jump down to the section about “— How can they scroll without scrolling interface”
It is described there.
You can scroll in Firefox aswell. Try with the arrow keys
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Kelson, OK, so your point is that natmaster disagrees with the scrolling, not that there is actual disagreement among other people whether the page should be scrollable (which the guide clearly states it should). Got it, I think.
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Ebola_Influenza, Acid2 test is written so, that some part of image are intended to move when scrolled and some are not. They are testing support for
position: fixedby this (which IE has no, afaik).So the fact, that the image gets distorted upon scrolling, is not just “not-a-big-deal”, but it’s the only correct way to handle Acid2. If the whole face would have moved without visual “artifacts”, that would indeed mean that Opera doesn’t respect
position: fixedand so does not pass Acid2.But since Opera does distort the rendering in exactly the way specified in the CSS, it passes Acid2 fully.
Hope this helps
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My Opera does not pass Acid2 with build 8533, but this could be because I installed it over the betas. This is how the page looks like (without scrolling, zooming or anything):
http://w3.enternet.hu/puki33/opera_acid2_bug.png
Anyway, a new Opera setup pass the acid test.
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karaj: You have enabled fit to width
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What on earth is this natmaster/Nathaniel guy talking about?
How come this guy dares to write an article about Acid2 if he doesn’t know what
position:fixedmeans?.Why WaSP posts such a misleading and vague blog entry?. Why haven’t they clarified that this is just nonsense and there’s no doubt Opera passes the test?.
“Molly Holzschlag: Acid2 Task Force Member”
Whatever…”FUD spreader” suits better in this case :-\
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Doesn’t pass for me, FC4, no scrolling or resizing or fit to width
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I’m sorry, but this is a Mozilla vs Opera issue. I mean for god’s sake that idiotic article was posted on SpreadFirefox. Not a single soul except myself made the comment that Zooming and Scrolling aren’t part of Acid2.
Heck some people even encouraged the article.
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Allright you know what, lets repeat the same article once Firefox 3 arrives (Firefox 3/Gecko 1.9 passes Acid 2)
For fellow Firefox fans out there, stop spreading FUD.
For fellow Opera fans out there, an eye for an eye, an insult for an insult.
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If some blame Opera, then also Konqueror. It can scroll the test page, then the smile face is distorted likewise. Additionally, if you set larger font from menu or Ctrl+mousewheel, the distortions are much worse than Opera’s renderings.
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Well, it passes the ACID2 test for me here
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Mine looks odd too. This is what it looks for me:
Acid2
I think it is because of my minimum font setting, it is set at 16px. No Fit To Page enabled.
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This is what my one appears like: acid2
No User JS, or user stylesheets. No Fit to Width.
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This is what my one appears like:
http://img113.imageshack.us/img113/1524/acid2ba7.png
No User JS, or user stylesheets. No Fit to Width.
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@Sohil: are you talking about this post? ‘Cause if you are, the only person I see encouraging the claims is natmaster himself.
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Opera passes the test on my home computer. But on my work computer the acid 2 test failes.
This is how it looks like:
http://1tones.com/opera_acid2.jpg
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Scrolling behaviour in Opera the same as in Safari, Konqueror and iCab (shows scrollbars) that also passed the Acid 2 test.